Post Note: This post is about using a remote collar (e-collar, electric collar) while training Oz. I know that not everyone believes in the use of these collars however if you are going to read this post, then I ask that you keep an open mind to OUR experience. If you leave a comment, feel free to disagree with any part of OUR experience but please remember to be respectful. Disrespectful, abusive and/or derogatory comments will not be tolerated and will be deleted. Thank you.
As many of you in WOOF Support know, I am reactive to other dogs when I am on leash; off leash, I am an angel (*ahem*). Though we have tried many different types of training techniques, those techniques alone still have not proved successful for me...to the point where Grandma calls me "Lunatic on a Leash".
Recently, Ma went to the PetSafe Pet Blogger Summit. I am sure you are thinking, "Oh, PetSafe only invited you so you could learn about their Remote Training Collars" but Ma learned about all their products - collars, clickers, fountains, treats, etc.
Ma had never seen a Remote Training Collar in person before attending the Summit. She never held one in her hand, never felt the "electricity" and she never knew how you were supposed to use one correctly. The Summit allowed her the opportunity to not just see a Remote Collar but to tap (and zap) herself with the electricity as well as learn from trainer Robin MacFarlane how to use the collar.
Did you know that most people use the collar incorrectly? They turn up that collar so high and then ZAP their dog when it is doing a behavior they don't like. That is completely wrong! A Remote Collar shouldn't be used to hurt a dog nor as a deterrent for a specific behavior.
A Remote Collar should be used as a lightly annoying attention-getter (like the child that continuously taps your hand saying "Mom(tap), Mom(tap), Mom(tap), Mom(tap), Mom(tap)..." until you cannot take it anymore and you respond. Using the Remote Collar in this fashion, a dog should be happy during the training session.
So, am I a happy dog when I am wearing and training in my Remote Collar? You tell me. This photo was taken of me training with my Remote Collar on while walking in a park full of distractions (including lots of dogs on leashes).
How We Started with my Remote Training Collar
The most important thing Ma learned from Robin MacFarlane's workshop was how to Find My Level. Now, dogs (and people) feel the "tap" at different levels. Ma can just barely feel the "tap" at 1Low (the collar has 8 Low settings and 8 High) but at 2Low, she feels it and it tickles.
To find my level, she took me into the yard (so I would be a bit distracted) and then began "tapping" me starting at 1Low. She observed me closely to see if I could feel it; I didn't. She then went up to 2Low...and on and on until I felt the "tap".
I barely felt it at 4Low (I looked down at the collar like "What?") and at 5Low, I looked at Ma...TREAT! That's right...every time I felt it and looked at Ma, I got a training treat and lots of praise.
Adding Commands I know
Next, Ma started walking in the opposite direction from me (I was on leash) and would give the command "Heel" (a command I like to ignore) with a "tap, tap, tap..." until I turned and came to heel. Once I turned and started towards "Heel" the taps stopped and I got praise. We worked on this for some time, and continue to do so...but now Ma just says "Heel" with 1 tap and I come to heel and walk beside her.
We also have worked on "Sit-Stay" and then "Come". I've known these commands all my life however I never liked "Come" and would usually refuse. Ma thought it would be good to use the Remote Collar to reinforce my knowledge. Now, when I do it correctly, which is usually with one little "tap", I get a high-five and/or a treat!
We train both in the backyard and in the neighborhood. My "Heel" command has started to work for on-leash walks past other dogs - though we incorporate some of Dr. Sophia Yin's techniques of turning at a 90 degree angle to walk in another direction as we "Heel" with a "tap" or 2.
You can see in the video that I am not being harmed in any way by the collar. Our training sessions are short, about 15 minutes, but I enjoy them and actually look forward to putting on my "training collar".
So, Can a Remote Collar be a Positive Training Tool?
Don't worry...I know some will never think it is a positive tool and that is okay. You know we are all about respecting everyone's opinion. I can just say that Remote Collar training with Ma has been very positive for me so far. I am re-learning my commands, helping me maintain control while walking on leash past other dogs, and I am strengthening my bond with Ma.
What kind of training tools do you use?
My friends at PetSafe have provided a Training Tool Pack for one lucky reader to win! It includes their Sport Treat Pouch, a Clicker and a Lickety Stikz Training Treat.
(PetSafe provided me the Training Tool Pack for free to be used as a giveaway for this post.)
(PetSafe provided me the Training Tool Pack for free to be used as a giveaway for this post.)
Enter the Rafflecopter for your chance to win! Open to U.S. and Canada only (as we will be mailing the prize).
This is the WOOF Support Blog Hop for reactive/fearful dogs and their owners. Please join us and share your experience.
That's very interesting. We know nothing about eCollars. Roxy probably needs one of those, but more on bludgeon than tap when she sees another dog!
ReplyDeleteYou would not need to set it to "bludgeon" - you just have to give a dog enough time to learn what that annoying little tap means before venturing out into the wilds of your neighborhood. We worked for a while in the backyard just on understanding what that little sensation meant before we even tried to use the remote collar on a leashed walk. Like everything...it is patience, patience, patience.
DeleteHi Oz. I'm shocked to hear that a remote collar can be used positively, but it sounds like that's what's happening here.
ReplyDeleteI was first advised to use a remote collar on my reactive Isis, by a trainer in whose class Isis had started snarling and lunging at other dogs. I left that class and do not believe that any good would have come from adding another stimulus to an already anxious dog.
Kari - before I saw the demonstration at PetSafe, I thought the same thing, in a way. I mean, I have seen remote collars on dogs but had no idea how it all worked, what it felt like....none of that. When I got the remote collar for Oz, it took me 2 weeks before I would even put it on him fearing I might hurt him or something. But I finally put it on and started and was happily surprised when Oz started responding and learning, tail wagging the whole time!
DeleteI won't say that a remote collar would work for every dog...or every owner...we need to know ourselves and our dogs. You made the right decision for Isis as you wouldn't want any training tool or technique to make a dog more anxious.
Whew! Oz this post is so valuable. We used a remote training collar, in exactly the way you describe, for about 4 months. We started when he was 7 months old, during his 'puppy from hell' phase. (this is when he earned his nickname, Little Terrorist. Lunatic on a Leash was taken I guess :). I think the key is getting lots of guidance before and during use of the collar with a trainer who has the philosophy you describe here. Thank you for sharing your experience. I honestly thought we'd never be able to talk about using the remote collar for fear of being called abusive and lots worse.
ReplyDeleteAnd hence my Note at the beginning of this post. I was, and still am, nervous about writing this post for those same reasons...being called abusive or worse. And let's be honest...so many people use these collars INCORRECTLY and actually do harm to their dog. It is no wonder people are afraid (lack of a better term) to use the remote collar and/or talk about them.
DeleteI would never harm or hurt Oz in any way and I admit, before going to PetSafe and listening to the trainer, I would never have considered using a remote collar...1) because I thought the collar would be "shocking" and 2) I had no idea how to use it properly. It took all my courage to open the box that darn collar came in and put it on Oz for the first time. But I am glad I did...and I am grateful to PetSafe and Robin for showing me that it is safe and can be used in a positive way.
PEOPLE - that is the biggest problem. We do not understand how to use things properly or some are just cruel and like to use things improperly. Those people give things like this bad raps.
DeleteAgree Kim - people who use this tool incorrectly, whether for lack of knowledge or just straight up cruelty, are the problem and they are the problem for more things than just the remote collar.
DeleteNot for us Oz but we know people who use them to great effect. Have a tremendous Thursday.
ReplyDeleteBest wishes Molly
And I respect that, Molly. To each, their own!
DeleteI believe that I'm just tooooo perfect !!!!! to need one of these (what Mum ????)
ReplyDeleteBut I luffs that smile of yours, you do looks a very happy puppy
Loves and licky kisses
Princess Leah xxx
there are always two side to everything and it is good to see you had a positive result
ReplyDeleteAgreed. It is amazing what you can learn, for better (or worse) when you open your mind to it.
DeleteI agree with you Oz, many people use training tools the wrong way and later they say it's "bad". It's very important to learn how this tools work , your mom was totally right. We prefer the "tree-technique", but mostly I win anyway, because my mom has not enough patience :o)
ReplyDeleteOh Easy, I can't imagine any human having enough patience for you. I agree, sometimes people call things "bad" because someone else is using that thing in a bad way. No matter what kind of training one does, it is best to LEARN how it all works first.
DeleteI couldn't even tell you were using the collar in the video! You did great, Oz. I think the important thing to take away from this is to get the proper training if using this kind of tool. It may not have been your first choice, but sometimes we have to try different things to find something that works. I'm still not sure if I would want to use an e-collar or not, but after seeing this I would definitely keep it in the back of my mind.....because in my post today I also talked about having to find ways to get Luke's attention, and that is sometimes challenging.
ReplyDeleteWell Miss Janet, it's not like it is going to make some kind of ZAP noise! BOL I agree...it is important to be properly trained with any training tool before even starting the training with your dog. I was amazed at how light the tap can be, as I always thought (probably like a lot of people) that it would be a powerful ZAP. Now I know, that ZAP is people using the tool incorrectly.
DeleteAnd yes, a remote collar was never my first choice training tool and throughout our WOOF hops, I've talked about the different techniques (Dr. Yin) and tools (clickers, gentle leader) we have tried. Each were not as successful as I hoped but now with the remote collar combined with Dr. Yin's techniques, I am seeing Oz learn in leaps and bounds...and we are both happy about that!
Clicker, and re-direct in don't work for Mikey not is he treat or toy driven. When outside he is high alert protection mode
DeleteThis was a GRRRRRrrreat Post.... we KNOW that Many Peeps do NOT know how to Correctly do Many thingys an this is no exception. We like Licky Stickies.
ReplyDeleteWhy, thank you boys. You are right...this is no exception. I sure hope you jumped into the giveaway to try and win yourself a Lickety Stik!!!
DeleteI don't need training. I'll consider it for my humans.
ReplyDeleteOz...first of all your Gma is funny. Lunatic on a Leash mom cracked up at that.
ReplyDeleteMany years ago my peeps were owned by Toto the might mini Doxie. He had a stubborn streak a country mile long and that big dog in a little body attitude. Back then (42 years ago) they didn't know about reactive dogs but he surely was one. Of course with Doxies we had to be very careful with his leash/collar...and I really don't remember harnesses being available. When walking mom would always have to pick him up as another dog approached. He really thought he was a Great Dane. I can surely see where this training is very beneficial for the dog...in the long run it can save it from injury and you don't have to yank on the leash. Toto must have been SOME K9...all these years later they still tell Toto Tales. One thing for sure he was the purrfect puppy for my human sis...he took really good care of her.
hugs madi your bfff
Oh my...your Toto sounds like a real terrier-izer! BOL Interesting that you bring up that this training may be beneficial for those breeds that need to be careful of their neck being yanked. I never even thought of that. You are a wise cat, Madi...very wise.
DeleteWe find this very interesting and valuable information. From what you describe if used correctly it would be no different than giving a pop with the leash (that we have been taught to do in some of our classes) and actually may be better. As you stressed - the key is knowing the correct way to use the collar. The training package would be great for our training sessions at home and at our training classes.
ReplyDeletehugs
Mr Bailey & Hazel
I guess it is no different from the leash-correction method...though for both types of training, people should really know what they are doing so they do not hurt the dog. We have found that used properly, the remote collar works and you can use it less and less as commands are learned.
DeleteWe also greatly appreciated this post! It is nice to see various training aids used correctly!
ReplyDeleteThanks Dory!
DeleteWith a couple of young pups in the house there is always some training to work on. We're glad you have had success with this tool. It isn't for everyone.
ReplyDeleteI am sure it is not for everyone. I am glad that we have tried it though as it is helping with Oz's training. I would never have even considered trying the remote collar before testing it on myself at the PetSafe Summit.
DeleteWe were loaned that type of collar when Bentley was a pup. He used to bite Tucker's legs but getting him neutered stopped it immediately! I didn't know the proper way to use it and couldn't stand the thought of accidentally causing my boy pain. I ended up never even trying it. I say that if it makes your life easier and doesn't hurt Oz (which I know you'd NEVER do!) then I say go for it.
ReplyDeleteAnd that is a great point you make, MK...because not knowing the proper way to use the remote collar can cause pain to your dog. Even after learning the proper way to use it, I was still nervous the first time I put it on Oz. You never know how a dog will respond to something like that but I am thankful that Oz's response is a positive one.
DeleteI will say I do not like e collars, however I do not know enough about them to really have a sound opinion. To each their own, and I believe it is a personal choice really.
ReplyDeleteThank you for sharing your experiences, and what a wonderful giveaway! I would love the clicker especially, I have wanted to get back into clicker training!
ღ husky hugz ღ frum our pack at Love is being owned by a husky!
And I respect that Jenna. To each their own...and if anyone is going to use the remote collar I say, LEARN HOW to use it properly first. Oh good! So glad you are getting back into clicker training. Paws crossed for you in the giveaway!
DeleteHi Oz. That was a really great article. I know ECollars get a bad rap but mainly because HUMANS like you said do not use them properly. My brother used one for his dog and it worked very well. He was a large breed and I even felt it too. It could be painful if too high and I think that is one thing people do not understand. I really enjoyed your information. I am trying now to use the clicker method but I am having trouble grasping it and with most training methods its me the human not falling the procedure correctly. We are trying hard. I have never seen that lick treat that would be a good easy treat to give while training I imagine. Thanks for the information.
ReplyDeleteYes, I think there may be a misconception about the newer remote collar models that they are still like the old ones that just ZAPPED the heck out of a dog. Mine has 16 different levels to choose from so you can adjust it according to what your dog feels. I tried clicker training too and I think, like you, it was user (or trainer) error in that my timing was not right and then it just didn't work for Oz. Good luck and keep trying!
Delete"Tap, tap" ... great article, describing the function of the collar as a "tap, tap" reminder makes it much easier for me to consider using it. Zack might find a little "tap tap" more effectively distracting than my (blah blah blah) voice!
ReplyDeleteWell, Oz surely finds it more effective than my "blah, blah, blah" voice, that is for sure. And honestly, you just need to "tap, tap" yourself with the collar to see just how gentle of a tap it can be.
DeleteGreat post Oz. I've never used anything like this, and have never really been too sure where I stand with these collars. Although, I don't think people who use them responsibly are abusing their dogs as some might suggest. This is probably the sort of thing Shiner would need to use. She is extremely stubborn.
ReplyDeleteWe weren't sure where we stood either before we actually saw/touched one in person. When you see that they do not need to be hurtful, it definitely makes you feel less worrisome about them.
DeleteThat is so great for you. We think these collars are a useful tool when used correctly, just as many other controversial items. The key is to know how to use them and to use them properly. Every one has their own needs and there are so many tools out there to help, but humans love to jump on the inhumane bandwagon right away without all the facts.
ReplyDeleteInteresting, Emma....I think you are right that some people, without knowing the facts (like touching and seeing a tool like this in person), will jump on the inhumane bandwagon by assumption. That's not to say that there are not people who use them inhumanely...because I am sure there are...but knowing how to use the tool properly makes the experience for the owner and the dog completely different, positive even. Thanks for your comment.
DeleteSo glad its working for you. It is very important to understand the proper use of it. Patience and training is a must to make it work. LOVE your SMILE, Oz. Golden Woofs
ReplyDeleteThank you, Sugar. Yes, a lot of the initial training especially is patience, patience, patience. But we have found that using this tool correctly really has a positive impact on my focus and attention to Ma when we are out and about.
DeleteI clicker train all my animals I would use this for my dog
ReplyDeleteVery good information Oz. We are all different - what works for some, may not be right for others. I am happy that you found a tool your Ma knows how to use that works for you. Using it as an attention getter (like your Ma does) instead of as a punishment sounds like the best/correct way to use it. Pawsonally, bribery with treats works best for me. BOL!
ReplyDeleteHugs,
Pepper
Thank you Pepper. I am glad we have finally found something that can really help us move forward. I agree...it's not for every dog and though I am easily bribed with treats, when it comes to my reactivity even treats don't get my attention like the collar does. Thank you for understanding and supporting me in my new training.
DeleteThat's great that the collar is working for you guys. I haven't been brave enough or had the time to try ours. I definitely liked the demonstration though and think it can be a great took used in the right way.
ReplyDeleteJess, I know you know how to use it the right way...and we can understand that you are still nervous to use it. We were too!!! Maybe it's not the tool you need for Chester and Gretel right now and that is okay. But thank you for supporting me in my new training. Oh, and Ma had a great time with you in Tennessee!
DeleteI have strong feelings against training collars, but my thoughts are about people who buy them at the pet store as their only source of training and don't learn how to properly use them. It's the horror stories that stick with you and it's easy to forget that there are dog owners (like one of my best friend) who have used these tools successfully and safely. Thanks for sharing your expense.
ReplyDeleteKimberly, we completely agree that the people who use it incorrectly create such horror stories that the whole concept of a remote training collar has become stigmatized. However, like you say, when used correctly they can be a great tool and they do not harm the dog. Thank you for coming by to leave a comment. It is much appreciated.
DeleteThis was a very excellent post, thanks for sharing your training techniques. The SS gang uses remote collars and they love them. Both humans and dogs. Used properly they really help with some advance training.
ReplyDeleteI know you use them, Miss JoAnn...I think the Brown Dawgs use them too...you all are great hunters and lots of hunting dogs use them. Though I have seen them many times on your blog, I never knew how they were supposed to be used...that said, I NEVER thought you were harming the SS gang. I knew it was the way you all communicated. I am really happy that we lave learned how to use this tool properly and that it is working for us. Maybe we could ask you some questions some time.
DeleteGood job Oz. Well you know we use ecollars and they do work very well, as you are finding out. They can absolutely be used on a reactive dogs, again as you are finding out. The reason they work is not because you are zapping the crap out of the dog, but because you are reinforcing obedience. Obedience gives a dog confidence and it is that confidence that goes a long way to help a reactive dog. Now like JoAnn says we go some steps further and use it for advanced training concepts, but it also works very well for basic obedience. I am glad you took the time to learn how to use it correctly.
ReplyDeleteOMD...Thank you pals! Coming from you, a "good job" on this means a LOT! You are right...we are reinforcing obedience and my confidence IS increasing and that is a good thing! I know you all use them for super advanced training and I may never get there but we are hoping I can get back to the "old Oz"...the one before that dog bit me and I got scared and reactive. I really appreciate your comment because I know YOU know just how effective these collars can be. Thanks for stopping by.
DeleteSomeday I am going to write a post about young Storm. Young Storm was a nightmare to walk around the neighborhood. I did not know the word "reactive" at the time. We said she was "wired for sound"...lol. I guess it is the same thing, different terms. Anyway, I had a particularly tough time with her. Her breeder suggested obedience classes and that was quite a challenge. I took her to classes until I was sort of able to control her. I even put a CGC on her. She was better but not great. It was not until we sent her away to a field trainer where she was worked with an ecollar and rules (well not so much obedience rules, but the advanced field concepts that required her to be attentive and disciplined in her work) that she absolutely blossomed. It was the confidence she got through that training that did it. So I know you will get back to old Oz. I am glad you found a tool to help your training.
DeleteI did not put 2 and 2 together when I first read your post but I have seen some youtubes by the trainer that put on the workshop you attended. I think that is a great that you got instruction from her. :)
Did you see the videos of her training the dog that bit its owner and was overly aggressive out of fear? She used the collar with both the static and the sound buzzer but did not utter one command at all. Since the dog was so fearful, she allowed the dog to figure it out on its own. It was amazing. I would have never believed the collar could be used to calm and focus the dog so much. I was awed by the training session she gave us...she gets a lot of flack for training with the collar but when you meet her in person you can SEE how much she CARES about the dogs. She gave me two of her videos as well; I've only watched the first one since we are beginners but it has helped remind me of the proper technique.
DeleteIt's no secret that I don't agree with these collars, especially for reactive dogs. Ian Dunbar sums up my feelings perfectly:
ReplyDelete"To use shock as an effective dog training method you will need:
A thorough understanding of canine behavior.
A thorough understanding of learning theory.
Impeccable timing.
And if you have those three things, you don’t need a shock collar."
— Dr. Ian Dunbar
And as I said in my post....you, and anyone else, has the right to completely disagree with our experience. This is a new tool for us and it's not something that we jumped into blindly. I was nervous about even writing this post, as the tool stirs up a lot of strong feelings in people, but as I always try to be honest here on my blog, I pushed myself to share this experience. Thank you for your comment.
DeleteYour experience is your experience - I can't disagree with it. I have an ethical opposition to the tool in general. I was actually surprised and disappointed to see so much support and thought long and hard about joining in with my apparently minority viewpoint. I understand your nervousness about addressing the topic, but would like people who might be considering using one based on your experience to know about the possible negative consequences and especially the risks about using one for a reactive dog. I know someone who used one on the advice of a well-known training chain, and their dog's aggression actually worsened significantly. Thank you for your response and for approving my comment.
DeleteI believe the collars are very effective and I cannot wait to win one.
ReplyDeleteI'm having trouble with my own reactive dog. We've just begun clicker training and he's doing well with it. This would be great for him.
ReplyDeleteI have one reluctant to come who thinks it's beneath him. I think this might be for him
ReplyDeleteHave you tried interrupting and redirecting before Oz gets up in that crazy reactive mode? Kronos can get crazy when he sees another dog and he's on leash, and trying to get his attention when he's in that mode is pretty impossible unless we create distance. So I've learned to look for signs that he's getting riled up and to stop him before he reaches full blown crazy and deaf mode. That's working really well and he is learning that he can look and be interested, but he doesn't need to respond-we have better things to do and a walk to focus on instead of responding to and obsessing about the other dogs.
ReplyDeleteI still don't know how I feel about shock collars, though I do want to know more about and understand both sides of the argument and definitely need to as I pursue dog training education....although honestly I've been contemplating one for Terra so she can enjoy the freedom of being off leash without me having to worry about her chasing a wild animal and getting lost or pissing off the other dogs if we walk with them when she decides to try to herd them. I can't trust her off leash like my other two who keep a very vigilant eye on me and many times she really could care less about where I am because everything else is more exciting (she has had repeat bad and near fatal experiences when she had that freedom), but I feel bad she has to be confined too while the other two get to run free. Dragging a leash, I have to worry about her potentially hanging herself or getting caught somewhere I have no idea where she is.
I'm glad this is working for you though Oz-keep up the great work!